econgeek
Apr 12, 09:01 PM
The basic process of "This is my source, this is my output" has been around as long as film editing.
The variety of source formats is going to continue to expand. Sure, some common standards emerge, such as hard drives and flash media, but just because in the past there was only one origination and one output format doesn't mean that this is the way the process has to work, or is somehow intrinsically superior.
The overall look of video editing, be it tape to tape, or the current (FC7) editing layout is more or less the same. In points, out points, etc.
Yes, and that is my point. I grant that, in the early days, when computers were new and computer based editing was seeking adoption from an industry full of professionals who had been doing it the same way for 20-30 years-- it made a lot of sense to emulate the workflow that they were using.
Now that computer editing has existed for a couple decades (give or take) the fact that it started out emulating the old methods is not, ipso facto, proof that it should continue to work the old ways.
The variety of source formats is going to continue to expand. Sure, some common standards emerge, such as hard drives and flash media, but just because in the past there was only one origination and one output format doesn't mean that this is the way the process has to work, or is somehow intrinsically superior.
The overall look of video editing, be it tape to tape, or the current (FC7) editing layout is more or less the same. In points, out points, etc.
Yes, and that is my point. I grant that, in the early days, when computers were new and computer based editing was seeking adoption from an industry full of professionals who had been doing it the same way for 20-30 years-- it made a lot of sense to emulate the workflow that they were using.
Now that computer editing has existed for a couple decades (give or take) the fact that it started out emulating the old methods is not, ipso facto, proof that it should continue to work the old ways.
Cougarcat
Mar 31, 10:02 AM
I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that really likes the look of the new ical
I like it. Much better than Address Book's UI, which I don't care for.
I like it. Much better than Address Book's UI, which I don't care for.
bobbleheadbob
Apr 2, 07:53 PM
Of the 4 in my family, none of these issues exists. Try again?
No problems here either. I love my new iPad 2. (black, 64 gb, ATT.)
No problems here either. I love my new iPad 2. (black, 64 gb, ATT.)
iJohnHenry
Mar 27, 09:59 AM
Really? How shocking!
Imagine, the U.S. European Command, headed by an American!
Next you'll be telling us that the U.S. President is an American, too.
Oh? He chose to leave those two significant letters out of his post. :confused:
Some more cynical than me (impossible) might consider that disinformation. :rolleyes:
Imagine, the U.S. European Command, headed by an American!
Next you'll be telling us that the U.S. President is an American, too.
Oh? He chose to leave those two significant letters out of his post. :confused:
Some more cynical than me (impossible) might consider that disinformation. :rolleyes:
Chef Medeski
Jul 14, 11:49 AM
The real deal about codecs from Wikepedia:
HD DVD:
the same video compression techniques: MPEG-2, Video Codec 1 (VC1) and H.264/MPEG-4 AVC.
HD DVD can be mastered with up to 7.1 channel surround sound using the linear (uncompressed) PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS formats also used on DVDs. In addition, it also supports Dolby Digital Plus and the lossless formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD.
BD:
decode at least the following codecs: MPEG-2, the standard used for DVDs; MPEG-4's H.264/AVC codec; and VC-1, a codec based on Microsoft's Windows Media 9. Realistically, when using MPEG-2, quality considerations would limit the publisher to around two hours of high-definition content on a single-layer BD-ROM. The two more advanced video codecs can typically attain four hours of high quality video.
For audio, BD-ROM supports up to 7.1 channel surround sound using the linear (uncompressed) PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS formats also used on DVDs. In addition, it also supports Dolby Digital Plus and the lossless formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD.
So, easily seen. The employ the exact same codecs. The only difference is:
BD:
Stricter DRM control
Much More Scratch Resistant
Greater future capacites
HD-DVD:
Cheaper to manufacture
And if Toshiba can make a 6-layer disc... well then that means a 90GB HD-DVD..... not bad. That would pull it in right above the total capacity of my PB HD.
HD DVD:
the same video compression techniques: MPEG-2, Video Codec 1 (VC1) and H.264/MPEG-4 AVC.
HD DVD can be mastered with up to 7.1 channel surround sound using the linear (uncompressed) PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS formats also used on DVDs. In addition, it also supports Dolby Digital Plus and the lossless formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD.
BD:
decode at least the following codecs: MPEG-2, the standard used for DVDs; MPEG-4's H.264/AVC codec; and VC-1, a codec based on Microsoft's Windows Media 9. Realistically, when using MPEG-2, quality considerations would limit the publisher to around two hours of high-definition content on a single-layer BD-ROM. The two more advanced video codecs can typically attain four hours of high quality video.
For audio, BD-ROM supports up to 7.1 channel surround sound using the linear (uncompressed) PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS formats also used on DVDs. In addition, it also supports Dolby Digital Plus and the lossless formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD.
So, easily seen. The employ the exact same codecs. The only difference is:
BD:
Stricter DRM control
Much More Scratch Resistant
Greater future capacites
HD-DVD:
Cheaper to manufacture
And if Toshiba can make a 6-layer disc... well then that means a 90GB HD-DVD..... not bad. That would pull it in right above the total capacity of my PB HD.
Silentwave
Jul 14, 12:36 AM
I agree - sadly. I believe the 802.11n will be slower to market than I would like - but am somewhat excited that Bluray is on it's way. I don't look forward to the format wars, but think bluray is a step towards a much bigger trend in high capacity portable media technology.
As long as tech companies find a way to incorporate these technologies in the market place,,. in other words I think the biggest obstacle to the advances in portable storage media will be tech companies apprehension to adopt technology that makes current offerings or recent offerings obsolete... complicated market but it could be the biggest obstacle to advancement.
What i'm worried about is if this whole format war between HD-DVD and Blu-ray turns out to be really worthless and end up with neither format winning and instead having both supplanted by further formats. it would be like trying to put betamax up against laserdisc then having DVDs come to market :rolleyes: .
There are great things coming though- future discs, future mass storage too. HDs may be on their way out soon enough for speed reasons. one thing i'm keeping an eye on is ferroelectric memory, which might also make HD-DVD/Bluray etc. partly obsolete as a storage format- useful primarily for video media only.
As long as tech companies find a way to incorporate these technologies in the market place,,. in other words I think the biggest obstacle to the advances in portable storage media will be tech companies apprehension to adopt technology that makes current offerings or recent offerings obsolete... complicated market but it could be the biggest obstacle to advancement.
What i'm worried about is if this whole format war between HD-DVD and Blu-ray turns out to be really worthless and end up with neither format winning and instead having both supplanted by further formats. it would be like trying to put betamax up against laserdisc then having DVDs come to market :rolleyes: .
There are great things coming though- future discs, future mass storage too. HDs may be on their way out soon enough for speed reasons. one thing i'm keeping an eye on is ferroelectric memory, which might also make HD-DVD/Bluray etc. partly obsolete as a storage format- useful primarily for video media only.
nagromme
Sep 1, 12:22 PM
Getting rid of the chin would require an external power supply like the ACDs unless you want a power supply sized blank space on the screen :p
Not to mention, lots of displays (not even computers!) have had a big space below the screen. But I guess because they put VISIBLE speaker grilles and cluttery lines down there, it's OK :)
Not to mention, lots of displays (not even computers!) have had a big space below the screen. But I guess because they put VISIBLE speaker grilles and cluttery lines down there, it's OK :)
AtHomeBoy_2000
Jul 18, 10:30 AM
ideally i would expect something like the 480p HD trailers they have at apple.com, but given the size of these files (let's see 1.5 minute trailer at 480p (848x400 it says) is 40MB, so say, a 120 minute movie at similar bitrates would be 3.2 GB) you're going to have to rent it the night before you want to watch it just so it'll download, even at fast broadband speeds.
Your numbers are pretty close to acuritre. I used the Spiderman 3 trailer for my numbers. It's encoded at 421.8 KB/s (3.2953125 Mb). So for a 2 hour movie (120 minutes, or 7200 seconds) that's 3,036,960 KB which is 2.8839 GB. To downlaod in real time, you would need at least a 3-6 Mb connection since typically, you only get the bottom of the promised speed. This means my 1.5-3 Mb DSL conection would take roughly 4-5 hours to downlaod the movie. Not good!
Your numbers are pretty close to acuritre. I used the Spiderman 3 trailer for my numbers. It's encoded at 421.8 KB/s (3.2953125 Mb). So for a 2 hour movie (120 minutes, or 7200 seconds) that's 3,036,960 KB which is 2.8839 GB. To downlaod in real time, you would need at least a 3-6 Mb connection since typically, you only get the bottom of the promised speed. This means my 1.5-3 Mb DSL conection would take roughly 4-5 hours to downlaod the movie. Not good!
HecubusPro
Sep 6, 06:06 PM
Personally, I wouldn't want to DL a large movie file without the option of being able to burn it to DVD so I can have that tangible hard copy that makes me feel safe and warm. Then I wouldn't have a problem deleting it off of my hard drive.
I could be wrong, but I don't see them dealing with rentals. Most people still don't have fast enough connections to warrant downloading a big movie file when they can just have it delivered to their door via Netflix or they can head down to their local Blockbuster and have it right away. Same goes for purchases. I like having the retail box. It just makes me a little bit happier. :) Now, if they offered HD downloads, I'd definitely be interested in that, even if it is a super big file.
I could be wrong, but I don't see them dealing with rentals. Most people still don't have fast enough connections to warrant downloading a big movie file when they can just have it delivered to their door via Netflix or they can head down to their local Blockbuster and have it right away. Same goes for purchases. I like having the retail box. It just makes me a little bit happier. :) Now, if they offered HD downloads, I'd definitely be interested in that, even if it is a super big file.
theelysium
Apr 21, 11:15 AM
They are blowing it out of proportion.
What about Google? Why don't they go after them for tracking every little thing you do with their services. If you want to talk about a company that violates & then documents our privacy go after Google.
What about Google? Why don't they go after them for tracking every little thing you do with their services. If you want to talk about a company that violates & then documents our privacy go after Google.
bellman
Apr 19, 11:06 AM
This is exactly the kind of rumors i've been waiting for:D:D:D
Chef Medeski
Jul 14, 10:45 AM
If it's cheaper, looks better, sounds better, and has more available titles, then why shouldn't HD DVD win? If BD used a more efficient codec, or at least had 50gb dual layer discs now (so MPEG2 could have a high bit rate at least), and the all the backing studios pumped out more titles, I'd buy it. But that isn't what it's shaping up to be right now. If they can get their act together, this could be a fight... but they are behind.
-Terry
Because current performance isn't prove of future trends, even if it is a indicator. If BD has a plan to release 50-200GB discs, while HD DVD can only make 70, then there is an advantage. If BD runs a better codec, I'm not sure but I think MPEG2/4 is a lot more flexible than VC-1 (knowning how windows is), unless its just H.2164? (forgot the number. Yet, personally I used to be a Blu-Ray fan, but now favor HD-DVD. The reason?
Well, firstly, Blu-Ray is obviously going to have a lot more DRM control, which I HATE. I HATE THAT CRAP. I mean the whole rootkit CD thing, pissed of my friends, I mean I didn't care too much cause I could jsut burn it regularily on my mac. :D! But, if a Blu-Ray player comes to mac, I'm sure DRM will come too. And man... that would suck. I really don't want my mac slowed down, so some Sony exec knows what I'm watching.
And personally, I don't see any use for discs over 50GB. I mean I probably could fit my whole music collection on one 70GB HD-DVD to back up. Hell, I could probably fit my music and photo collection if I got rid of some music I have been meaning to get around too. But even if I had to use two discs... big whoop... plus one disc of 200GB.... I don't even have 200GB of HD space ebtween 4 computers. How the hell can I use it?
Plus, with current trends, it looks like HD-DVD will have a bigger foothole by the time Sony releases the PS3... itll be late b/c of shrotage in chip and blue ray drives... and then itll be really expensive. I think Xbox might have one this one... hopefully they dont botch it with the HD-DVD thing. And if they don't then that means for $400 you can get a HD-DVD player.... thats a steal when you consider everything it does also. I just dont see Sony winning this one, unless they drop DRM and massively subsidize all products (fat chance).
-Terry
Because current performance isn't prove of future trends, even if it is a indicator. If BD has a plan to release 50-200GB discs, while HD DVD can only make 70, then there is an advantage. If BD runs a better codec, I'm not sure but I think MPEG2/4 is a lot more flexible than VC-1 (knowning how windows is), unless its just H.2164? (forgot the number. Yet, personally I used to be a Blu-Ray fan, but now favor HD-DVD. The reason?
Well, firstly, Blu-Ray is obviously going to have a lot more DRM control, which I HATE. I HATE THAT CRAP. I mean the whole rootkit CD thing, pissed of my friends, I mean I didn't care too much cause I could jsut burn it regularily on my mac. :D! But, if a Blu-Ray player comes to mac, I'm sure DRM will come too. And man... that would suck. I really don't want my mac slowed down, so some Sony exec knows what I'm watching.
And personally, I don't see any use for discs over 50GB. I mean I probably could fit my whole music collection on one 70GB HD-DVD to back up. Hell, I could probably fit my music and photo collection if I got rid of some music I have been meaning to get around too. But even if I had to use two discs... big whoop... plus one disc of 200GB.... I don't even have 200GB of HD space ebtween 4 computers. How the hell can I use it?
Plus, with current trends, it looks like HD-DVD will have a bigger foothole by the time Sony releases the PS3... itll be late b/c of shrotage in chip and blue ray drives... and then itll be really expensive. I think Xbox might have one this one... hopefully they dont botch it with the HD-DVD thing. And if they don't then that means for $400 you can get a HD-DVD player.... thats a steal when you consider everything it does also. I just dont see Sony winning this one, unless they drop DRM and massively subsidize all products (fat chance).
Stella
Mar 19, 04:31 PM
All about the oil... "protect the citizens" is a perfect excuse. Sadly, because this is what it should be about.
bobsentell
May 2, 05:44 PM
iOS style multitasking features (benefits) are indeed in Lion.
Applications written for Lion can "suspend and resume" without having to "save and close" documents. The reason the little light below running apps on the Dock was removed is that "running" is now more of a decision between the App and OS -- not so much the user. (APP - "Am I idle right now? Can I resume from this point very quickly? If so, I'll just suspend myself till the user or an event wakes me back up. No need to burn RAM or CPU, the user won't even notice I'm not here.)
There is no reason with modern computer architecture for humans to do memory management by getting involved with which programs are actually physically in memory/active. We have 7200rpm SATA3 or SSD drives, multicore processors with Gigahertz speeds, and Gigabytes of RAM...
The way we interact with Multitasking in Windows 7 and OS X Snow Leopard is based on the hardware limitations imposed by 640K RAM, 4.7 Megahertz single core processor, and Floppy Disks. Apple took the first brave step away from that with iOS. It's good to see it moving forward in Lion.
But my iPhone is far more limited than my first Windows PC in that regard. Even with Windows 95 I could go from one app to another while letting the other on load in the background. iOS freezes everything. If I want a video to upload on Facebook, I have no choice but to keep the app open until it's done. On my PC, I can start the upload and then move on to other things while the process is completing.
I find moving to non-true multitasking as a step backward, not a step forward. As you said, out systems capabilites are able to do so much more. I can be playing a computer game, hit the Windows key, and open a media player and never see a drop in performance. Why limit your computer to one task at a time? Kind of defeats the point of multi-core processors.
Applications written for Lion can "suspend and resume" without having to "save and close" documents. The reason the little light below running apps on the Dock was removed is that "running" is now more of a decision between the App and OS -- not so much the user. (APP - "Am I idle right now? Can I resume from this point very quickly? If so, I'll just suspend myself till the user or an event wakes me back up. No need to burn RAM or CPU, the user won't even notice I'm not here.)
There is no reason with modern computer architecture for humans to do memory management by getting involved with which programs are actually physically in memory/active. We have 7200rpm SATA3 or SSD drives, multicore processors with Gigahertz speeds, and Gigabytes of RAM...
The way we interact with Multitasking in Windows 7 and OS X Snow Leopard is based on the hardware limitations imposed by 640K RAM, 4.7 Megahertz single core processor, and Floppy Disks. Apple took the first brave step away from that with iOS. It's good to see it moving forward in Lion.
But my iPhone is far more limited than my first Windows PC in that regard. Even with Windows 95 I could go from one app to another while letting the other on load in the background. iOS freezes everything. If I want a video to upload on Facebook, I have no choice but to keep the app open until it's done. On my PC, I can start the upload and then move on to other things while the process is completing.
I find moving to non-true multitasking as a step backward, not a step forward. As you said, out systems capabilites are able to do so much more. I can be playing a computer game, hit the Windows key, and open a media player and never see a drop in performance. Why limit your computer to one task at a time? Kind of defeats the point of multi-core processors.
lifeinhd
Feb 26, 10:44 PM
My friend and I actually built the stand our selves, it serves to provide room for me to slide the keyboard under and just to elevate the imac in general, so it's more at eye level.
What's it made out of? And I presume there's a third leg holding the back of the iMac foot up? Otherwise I'd be rather concerned about it falling out of balance during an intense typing session :o
Lamp: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BCDGMG
External HDD: http://www.macally.com/EN/Product/ipod4show.asp?ArticleID=209
Speakers: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Z-3-Wood-Grained-Speakers/dp/B0000C20V3/ref=sr_1_12?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1298679238&sr=1-12
iPhone stand: http://www.xtand.net/xtand.html
You know what this forum needs? The ability to tag items in photos, sort of like how you tag people in FaceBook.
And I hate FaceBook.
What's it made out of? And I presume there's a third leg holding the back of the iMac foot up? Otherwise I'd be rather concerned about it falling out of balance during an intense typing session :o
Lamp: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BCDGMG
External HDD: http://www.macally.com/EN/Product/ipod4show.asp?ArticleID=209
Speakers: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Z-3-Wood-Grained-Speakers/dp/B0000C20V3/ref=sr_1_12?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1298679238&sr=1-12
iPhone stand: http://www.xtand.net/xtand.html
You know what this forum needs? The ability to tag items in photos, sort of like how you tag people in FaceBook.
And I hate FaceBook.
sporadicMotion
Jan 11, 10:15 PM
My VW is away for the winter :)
A new pic for '11
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz19/sporadicMotion/DSCN0447-1.jpg
A new pic for '11
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz19/sporadicMotion/DSCN0447-1.jpg
Mr. Gates
Mar 23, 04:53 AM
I would need a 2.4 TB iPod to store all of my Music.
Right now I'm using an 80 gig and choosing different playlists on my monthly sync.
I only use it for the car so I'm not too concerned with upgrading.
With my iPhone I use the app "ORB (http://www.orb.com/en/orblive)" and have full access to the home server anytime but that depends on DATA and is sometimes slow or in bad coverage areas.
I only need this for the car, so no big deal.
But if they stop making the classic I would be bummed out
Right now I'm using an 80 gig and choosing different playlists on my monthly sync.
I only use it for the car so I'm not too concerned with upgrading.
With my iPhone I use the app "ORB (http://www.orb.com/en/orblive)" and have full access to the home server anytime but that depends on DATA and is sometimes slow or in bad coverage areas.
I only need this for the car, so no big deal.
But if they stop making the classic I would be bummed out
person135
Oct 30, 03:05 PM
The switcheasy color looks good, and it's cheap, but this griffin one (http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/flexgrip-action-touch4g) also looks good and this Speck pixelskin (http://www.speckproducts.com/ipod-audio/ipod-touch-4th-gen/pixelskin-black-1501.html) too, but the griffin one seems to be shock/drop proof (at least more so than the other 2).
tablo13
Sep 19, 09:55 PM
solid. probably going to go for that grip vue. got a question about it though. does it have direct access to the buttons, or does it have a button you press that presses on the button? i hope you guys understand. haha.
I saw some of the pics and the buttons are covered. :)
I saw some of the pics and the buttons are covered. :)
bketchum
Sep 1, 02:07 PM
Quote:
What is this chin on the iMac that everybody is talking about?
23"?
The large space (chunk) below the screen.
In Canada we call it the Mulroney.
What is this chin on the iMac that everybody is talking about?
23"?
The large space (chunk) below the screen.
In Canada we call it the Mulroney.
Lord Blackadder
Mar 1, 10:09 PM
Wikipedia states the Toyota Prius 3rd Gen gets a combined AFE of 50 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius#Third_generation_.28XW30.3B_2009.E2.80.93present.29) mpg (4.7L US gallons) if the diesel Cruze gets 37/48, that would give it a median AFE of 42.5 — 85% of what the Prius gets.
Against this you have to factor in the presumably lower cost of the Cruze, somewhat higher performance, lower cost to maintain, and lack of the battery pack with all it's complexity, carbon footprint, and cost.
Against this you have to factor in the presumably lower cost of the Cruze, somewhat higher performance, lower cost to maintain, and lack of the battery pack with all it's complexity, carbon footprint, and cost.
milo
Aug 29, 09:02 AM
Incredibly underwhelming.
If they're going to stay yonah, at least bump the clock speed more than that.
The only upside to this is that it leaves a HUGE gap between the mini and Pro, could mean that apple really is planning a conroe minitower/pizzabox/mediacenter.
That, and the fact that ThinkSecret is NEVER right. EVER.
If they're going to stay yonah, at least bump the clock speed more than that.
The only upside to this is that it leaves a HUGE gap between the mini and Pro, could mean that apple really is planning a conroe minitower/pizzabox/mediacenter.
That, and the fact that ThinkSecret is NEVER right. EVER.
takao
Feb 24, 06:34 PM
The Koreans have been improving a great deal since they built my borther's 1998 Hyundai Accent (which I someday hope to convert into a rally car when it's served it's on-road purpose). I would say that many of the lates models from Korea equal or exceed the Japanese in quality.
true i think the mentioned Kia Cee'd is the prime example of a great korean car ... the problem though is that with it the price advantage also vanished ;)
and i nretroperspective the name change from Dewoo to Chevrolet really helped GM a lot, sales really have been picking on ... relativly
regarding japanese cars they somehow again managed to hit 2 homeruns in the stupid name department
the Mitsubishi iMiEV which in german is spoken out (translated) "iStink"
and the suzuki Kizashi which in austrian dialekt german sounds pretty close to " kiss...'lower backside' "
As for the Germans, I am a fan of many German cars and they have earned their reputation, but not all of their cars are great. I remember looking over the C-Class hatchback a few years ago and aside from the RWD and the badge it was inferior to a Golf IMO, and quite a bit more money. Same goes for the M-Class, or the BMW 318 and Z3. I think people often assume that the German cars are benchmarks, but not all of them are.
true that .. regarding german benchmark cars i would mention the Golf TDI, the Mercedes E250 Blu Efficiency CDI, the BMW M3 .. in their markets they are simply the best there is for different reasons:
the Golf TDI is defining a whole vehicle class for most of europe: "Golf Klasse", every new vehicle roughly the same size and hatchback layout gets compared to it
the E250 BE CDI: showing that a fuel saving vehicle doesn't need to be hideous and still can be a big saloon car driving from Barcelona to Stuttgart on a single tank
the M3: the sporty 4 door saloon car benchmark
true i think the mentioned Kia Cee'd is the prime example of a great korean car ... the problem though is that with it the price advantage also vanished ;)
and i nretroperspective the name change from Dewoo to Chevrolet really helped GM a lot, sales really have been picking on ... relativly
regarding japanese cars they somehow again managed to hit 2 homeruns in the stupid name department
the Mitsubishi iMiEV which in german is spoken out (translated) "iStink"
and the suzuki Kizashi which in austrian dialekt german sounds pretty close to " kiss...'lower backside' "
As for the Germans, I am a fan of many German cars and they have earned their reputation, but not all of their cars are great. I remember looking over the C-Class hatchback a few years ago and aside from the RWD and the badge it was inferior to a Golf IMO, and quite a bit more money. Same goes for the M-Class, or the BMW 318 and Z3. I think people often assume that the German cars are benchmarks, but not all of them are.
true that .. regarding german benchmark cars i would mention the Golf TDI, the Mercedes E250 Blu Efficiency CDI, the BMW M3 .. in their markets they are simply the best there is for different reasons:
the Golf TDI is defining a whole vehicle class for most of europe: "Golf Klasse", every new vehicle roughly the same size and hatchback layout gets compared to it
the E250 BE CDI: showing that a fuel saving vehicle doesn't need to be hideous and still can be a big saloon car driving from Barcelona to Stuttgart on a single tank
the M3: the sporty 4 door saloon car benchmark
OdduWon
Oct 23, 10:22 AM
So Macbooks next tuesday :confused:
yes on the 31 we shall have a trick and a treat... ...MACBOO
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jonathaniliff/macboo2-1.jpg
yes on the 31 we shall have a trick and a treat... ...MACBOO
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jonathaniliff/macboo2-1.jpg
